Town of Stoddard, NH

Building Committee Minutes

7:00 PM March 25, 2010

Stoddard Town Hall

Members present:    Penny Betz, Dick Briere, Lou GrandPré, Sandy Holland, P.J. Lamothe, Harry Power, Amy Rokoszak, and David Vaillancourt

Absent:                    Alan Rumrill

Attending:                 Dick Betz, Joan Read and Arnie Stymest

Dick Briere called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.

The first order of business was to establish future meeting dates.  The Committee will meet April 8^th and 22^nd and May 6^th and 20^th. 

The Committee reviewed a chart prepared by Harry which presents the four options for town buildings and creation of town offices along with the tax impacts per thousand for each.  It was decided to have two large copies, hopefully 24 x 36 made for Town Meeting and also to get 200 black & white copies for handouts. 

Penny noted that the tax impact for the Town Hall alone is not presented.  Harry said he has the number and would speak to that at Town Meeting.  The bonding information for it alone is different, for five or ten years, since the amount is so much smaller.  Penny asked that the school be added to the chart in a dollar amount.  Harry said he would have that at Town Meeting also.  The chart will also be posted on the website.

The Committee was provided handouts from Baybutt, one a letter that defined the scope of work, the other a line item fee proposal.  Dick suggested we revisit the engineering costs for the Cahill property, i.e. concerns with siting a building(s).  He said that as much as it is appreciated that David Vaillancourt would be willing to dig holes, Baybutt, Aho and Meridien have all expressed that proper engineering studies would be in the neighborhood of $50,000.  Do we do an additional warrant article to include site engineering?  Harry moved to check with a professional for a quote, seconded by Sandy.  Vote yielded six ayes, two nays. Amy will pursue with Meridien to get a quote by April 8^th.

Amy said that, although she has only been in Stoddard five years, she has never seen anything involving money presented with such clarity and transparency.  She also said that we owe a profuse thank-you to Baybutt, as they have gone well above and beyond the original scope of work and fee.

Amy asked if we do get the Town Hall work done as hoped for, what are we going to do to improve the looks of the handicap ramp?  Several low-cost remedies were discussed.  The treads on the stairs are steeper than they should be as well and should be adjusted. 

Dick Betz provided some information on grants, particularly US Department of Agricultural Rural Development grants.  According to the USDA, Stoddard is a “poverty level” town and thus are in line to receive the most generous grants or interest terms on loans.  Many of the grants require matching funds.  Sandy said that she has attempted to find specific grant availability information and has felt dead-ended with it.  All agreed this subject needs to be more thoroughly investigated.

Joan Read asked about placement of warrant articles.  This is still an exercise in progress.  It is generally considered that these articles will be advanced in the sequence and, because they are bond issues, they must be voted on by ballot.  It is known that there will be a standalone article for the Town Hall Renovations, one for the Gould House, one for the Baybutt concept on the Cahill property and one for site engineering at the Cahill property.  There must be one to include police station repairs and research, repairs and septic design for the library, and one for Building Committee operations for a year inclusive of some funds for repairs for other town buildings that may arise as emergencies and are greater than $1,000.  Sandy will work with Interim Town Administrator on the articles and placement and Amy will review with Jim next week.

The Committee will next meet on Thursday April 8^th.  This meeting adjourned at 8:30 pm. 

Respectfully submitted,

___________________________

Sandy Holland

Building Committee Minutes

7:00 PM March 18, 2010

Stoddard Town Hall

Members present:    Penny Betz, Dick Briere, Lou GrandPré, Sandy Holland, P.J. Lamothe, Harry Power, Amy Rokoszak, and David Vaillancourt

Absent:                    Alan Rumrill

Dick Briere called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.

Dick stated that there was an interest in having one more public informational meeting to present options for town offices and Town Hall restoration.  A tentative date of Saturday, May 15^th at 10 AM had been established during a selectmen’s meeting.  He moved that we conduct this meeting, Amy seconded, all voted for it.    

Regarding repairs for the police station building, Dick said he had gone to Home Depot and priced out the materials needed at about $1,050, regular retail price.  Using the formula of 20% materials and 80% labor, he expects the repairs would cost about $5,000.  According to a five-year old appraisal report, it would cost approximately $65K to put on a 12’ x 24’ addition and reroof and upgrade the existing building.  Harry asked why the repairs for the fire station weren’t put in the selectmen’s budget.  Amy asked why, instead of spending $5,000 that would be wasted, we wouldn’t spend the additional $57K to put on the addition and do it right.  We need to get an update on general building costs per square foot, taking into consideration that different occupancies/uses will require specific building differences that may affect costs.  P.J. said that the ceiling/roof at the police station cannot be replaced without adhering to code.

Dick commented that this is the last year departments will be submitting items to the selectmen if the anticipated expense is greater than $1,000.  They will be brought to the Building Committee first, then taken up with the Board of Selectmen if necessary. 

Amy returned to the subject of the Baybutt design for the Cahill property stating she thinks we have a problem when we put it into a Warrant Article, because this is a figure “out of the sky”.  Are we going to say we are recommending this design?  Did we ever approve it?  No.  She continued, noting that the Article would need to be written to really investigate the concept.  She thinks we should not include the Article although she understands the logic in doing so.  She doesn’t think we have enough information to be credible.  Dick said he was aware that Amy was the only “no” vote on this when it was voted on.  He added that the Article could use language of “concept” and clearly state what is not included in the price.

Penny said she fears a “real danger” if we don’t get consensus from the town, and we only vote for the Gould House and it doesn’t fly.  What do we do next year?  Amy said we can’t limit a warrant article to $750K when we know there will be additional costs.  Lou said he disagreed totally.  He noted that Rod Parsons (Baybutt) had said that it was “all engineered”.  Amy said he had not and she wants a printout of what is included in that price, wants it in writing so that it isn’t just “general conversation”. 

Dick said that we have materials to present on May 15^th and after that we will move on to the police station, fire station and library.  Harry said it all comes down to money with the people.  They will ask, “Do I really need it or do I only want it?” 

Penny said she does not have figures on an addition for the library, adding if they have some money (matching funds) they can go for an L-Chip grant.  She says their feeling is to stay with the original library building, just putting on an addition, but the townspeople should decide.  Part of the money could come through fund-raising.  It was suggested that the library trustees call several architects, see if they could come up with at least three proposals to get an idea of cost.

Amy expressed a concern on “fronting” funds to accomplish a task, then receiving the matching funds from a grant, whether the grant money would be returned to the correct budget or would it go into the general fund.  Lou said that we can designate where the funds are to go.  Penny said the Library should ask for $15,000.  The Building Committee, then, needs two $20K warrant articles:  Library ($15K) and Police Station ($5K) plus $20K for design and Committee operations.  If nothing passes, we will have zero to work with if we don’t ask for some operations money.  Lou said to put in money for engineering of the Cahill property if the Gould House doesn’t pass.  If it does pass, table the article for another year.  Amy said she would call Meridien to see what they would charge.  Lou said that we don’t need Meridien, that David Vaillancourt and a soils scientist could do it. 

The Committee will next meet on Thursday March 25^th.  This meeting adjourned at 8:25 pm. 

Respectfully submitted,

___________________________

Sandy Holland

Building Committee Minutes

7:00 PM March 11, 2010

Stoddard Town Hall

Members present:    Penny Betz, Dick Briere, Lou GrandPré, Sandy Holland, P.J. Lamothe, Harry Power, Amy Rokoszak, Alan Rumrill, and     David Vaillancourt

Absent:                    none

Attending:               Joan Read, Arnie Stymest, Fred Ward

Dick Briere called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.

Dick asked whether there were comments regarding the recent presentations and whether we would do anything differently if we were to have another presentation. 

Penny Betz asked why the Baybutt proposal for the Cahill property was not included, particularly in the chart showing a bonding cost comparison. She asked that it be presented, along with other information, at Town Meeting and on the website.  Dick said that we were committed to presenting all the options we had.  Amy Rokoszak suggested that all the options/numbers be put on the website.  Dick said that the presentation would be posted on Election day, that any value (number) Baybutt has provided will be public to all.  Harry noted that he is preparing a chart that will be very clear on the costs for each option.  Amy said that we can’t anticipate what the final cost will be, and Dick responded that Baybutt has guaranteed a maximum, not to exceed, price (GMP).  If the warrant article passes for any option, Baybutt will start work before we receive the bond.

Lou GrandPré stated that during the meeting before the informational meetings, he had made a statement that he was for renovating the Gould House.  He wants to retract that vote.  He says that the square footages were not set forth and the prices of $75 - $100 per square foot for renovation versus $200 per square foot for new construction are not fairly presented.  If you factor in what has already been spent on the Gould House, the cost of renovation becomes $290.53/sf.  Lou thinks the Baybutt proposal for the Cahill property should be the one we use.  Dick said that there is no way to compare apples to apples on the cost already outlaid on the Gould House or the Cahill property versus overall square footage of any project.  Better to start fresh.  Amy asked who made the decision to present the Aho alternative over the Baybutt design.  Lou said that all were presented.   

Lou continued, asking what are you buying?  He feels the Red Room is useless, the selectmen’s office is useless, so you are getting a town clerk’s office plus space for the tax collector.  Harry Power stated that we are asking for $195K for the repairs/ upgrades to the Town Hall and he thinks many will favor that.  If we go with the Baybutt new construction on the Cahill property, he asked what we do with the Gould House.  The new construction is $400K more than renovating the Gould House.

P. J. Lamothe said that, we as a group, we never looked at what might be done with the Gould House if it is not renovated.  She is in favor of seeing a new building constructed.  Lou said we cannot use the Gould House.  Amy and Dick both stated that we can and Amy added that we never considered Rick Monahon’s proposal, which was around $600K.

Dick said that, at the meeting before the informational meetings, we had voted on what our recommendation to the town would be and had unanimous agreement.  Let’s do it again.  Do we renovate the Gould House with Baybutt’s guaranteed maximum price?  On a roll call vote, Harry Power, Dick Briere, Sandy Holland, Penny Betz, Amy Rokoszak and Alan Rumrill voted yes.  P. J. Lamothe, Lou GrandPré and David Vaillancourt voted no.  Result:  six yes, three no.

Amy questioned the warrant article for the Town Hall, stating that it lists “entrances” when we aren’t planning to construct new entrances.  Dick said that he would like to leave the article as written to allow some leeway.  If we are under budget, maybe we can afford to do something more, and entrances would be a good way to go. 

Penny said that we need to vote on the other two options. Dick said that if we present others, we need more articles and a strategy for presenting them.  What other buildings do we want on the warrant and in what order?  Keeping in mind we still don’t know what cost circumstances we might find at the Cahill property (building conditions, water, ledge), how much more would the town need to spend to do the engineering there.  Baybutt will not improve the road.  Amy stated that the road must be widened, Lou said it does not, it’s the widest road in town. 

Lou presented a drawing and asked why it had never come out (been presented) before.  It was stamped by Higher Design, Civil Engineers and Casey Hayes, Surveyor.  Sandy Holland said that it was the first time she was aware of the drawing, and that if it was in the Selectmen’s office files, she had not seen it. Harry inspected the drawing and stated that it had no relevance in terms of the property’s buildability as the notes contained disclaimers, stating unknown conditions and taking no responsibility for them.

Penny stated that lots of things are coming up.  Some people are upset with the Cahill property option(s), some with the Gould House, but we need to stop riling each other up.  Just because some were upset about previous (town) votes that didn’t go their way about the Gould House or the Cahill property, we need to stop bringing up the past and move on.  We need to give voters information on what it will cost now to build town offices.  In order to vote on an option, they need to know what it will cost them right now, not go into past costs.  That does not move us forward.  Amy said that, in all fairness to the town, we can’t present options on the Cahill property without an engineering study being done.  Penny said people would be angry with the Building Committee if we were to do that, and if we could not give them clear options to vote on after all this time and effort. 

Dick said that from personal experience an old building done properly will outlast a new one, that a concrete block construction is inferior to a properly constructed frame building.  Lou disagreed, stating his background is superior to Dick’s.  While the Gould House may be structurally good for 25 – 50 years, it is not necessarily usable for 25 – 50 years.  He had called the Secretary of State and was told we have a population of over 1,200 now.  Dick noted that we also would have a usable basement in the Gould House, that it was perfectly dry all winter.

Lou asked to get on with it, tell it to the people.  Dick said he doesn’t want anyone to be misled.  Amy suggested we present all the facts, keep personalities and personal opinions out of it.  She continued that this committee was formed to reach a decision and make a recommendation, and it is not sensible to present five or six options to the town to make a decision.  The majority of the Building Committee has decided the most effective use of funds will be the renovation of the Gould House and the repairs/upgrades to the Town Hall for $355K and $195 respectively. 

Dick noted that Lou had made a comment that we need to move on.  Lou asked if we are going to include the Baybutt option on the warrant.  Dick stated we are not.  After town meeting, in next year’s committee, the fire station, police station and the library need to be addressed.  We want to dispense with the Gould House and Town Hall and move on.  Lou said that the options for the Cahill land were not presented.  Dick said they were during the presentation and in the handout.  Amy said that you can’t make a decision based on just square footage, that there are many more costs beyond that in considering the Cahill property that are unknown at this time without an engineering study.  Penny said the voters need an opportunity to vote on the options.  Amy asked how we can present something we didn’t vet, adding that it would be a death knoll on the entire committee. 

Amy moved for a roll call vote on including in the warrant an article for $1.3M for construction of the Aho concept for town offices on the Cahill property, knowing that price does not include engineering costs. All members voted against including an article on the warrant to encompass this option. 

Another roll call vote was taken on whether to further develop the Cahill property. P.J. Lamothe, David Vaillancourt and Lou GrandPré voted for it; Penny Betz, Dick Briere, Sandy Holland, Harry Power, Amy Rokoszak and Alan Rumrill voted no.  Result:  six no, three yes.

An additional roll call vote was made whether to include a warrant article for $750K for the Baybutt concept for the Cahill property.  All members voted yes except Amy Rokoszak with a no vote.

Penny asked for a vote so that the three who voted against the Gould House could vote to either support one of the other options or vote for none of them.  P. J., Lou, and Dave voted that they supported the Baybutt/Cahill option.

Dick noted that the election this year will include replacement (or election) of three Committee members, David, P.J. and Sandy.  He asked if any of the three would be willing to run to serve another year.  All responded in the affirmative, although P.J. said that meeting every week was too much.  Dick responded that he hopes twice monthly will be sufficient.

Amy asked about a “back-up” warrant article, i.e., if this fails, present that.  P.J. suggested that we should have a “pass over if not needed” situation.  Discussion of budget for the Committee ensued with a consensus that $15,000 was probably the right amount as it will be in their budget to see to some routine maintenance on the town-owned buildings.  It was noted that David still needs an addition on the police station and that the trees behind the police station had not been cut.  Lou stated that he thinks that should be put in the Selectmen’s budget.  P.J. said she had already talked to the Board of Selectmen about some maintenance/repairs at the fire station but the Building Committee was also in the loop.

Penny noted that the NH Library Trustees Handbook says the trustees should be responsible for the inside of the building and the town for the building itself, but this has not been the case in the past.  The trustees have discussed getting quotes for insulation but aren’t sure if they should wait until an addition is planned.  A similar problem exists with getting a new heating system. 

Amy said that by the next meeting we should come up with some figures for next year’s needs, fees for architects to do library and police station additions, a heating system for the library, etc.  David was asked if he needed a new well and he does not, just needs another pump. 

Dick asked for a moment of consideration on April meetings.  He will be out of town two weeks in April, but noted that we have a perfectly capable Vice Chair to conduct the meetings.  Amy suggested we meet the next two Thursdays, the 18^th and 25^th of March, and skip the first week of April. 

Harry is working on a Building Committee summary for the Annual Report.

Amy moved and Harry seconded that the meeting be adjourned.  By majority vote, the meeting adjourned at 8:40 pm. 

Respectfully submitted,

___________________________

Sandy Holland